A recent class period generated particularly good discussion and several students mentioned afterward how much they enjoyed it. I’ve decided to post a summary of that discussion here for a wider audience. I’m going to encourage my students to come and participate in further dialogue, but would appreciate anyone else’s input as well.In one of our texts, Larry Crabb addresses the issue of Biblical sufficiency in counseling. At the heart of the debate among Christians is this question: Is the Bible sufficient to tell us everything we need to know about understanding and solving the problems people face in their lives?
Rephrased for counselors, the question might go something like this: Is the Bible a textbook for counseling? Crabb outlines three positions on this question.
(1) No, God never intended to write a comprehensive guide for counseling. Under this position, “Content other than biblical data is permitted to serve as the beginning and end points for thinking through the issues of counseling.” Counselors legitimately can use any data in understanding and solving personal problems as long as they don’t contradict direct teachings of Scripture. One major problem with this position is that the Bible often fails to serve as a foundation for our counseling. Our theories and techniques must only avoid conflict with the Bible. They do not necessarily emerge from the Bible.
Sometimes our churches operate under this position even though they would verbalize something different. Churches that verbally commit to the Bible being sufficient for everything needed in understanding and solving personal problems often openly neglect addressing personal problems. Crabb puts it this way, “The message [in many churches] is clear: The community of God’s people is no place to deal with the real concerns eating away at your lives; we exist to maintain orthodox belief and to promote conforming behavior. Helping you with your personal problems is not the business of the church.”
(2) Yes. It is comprehensively relevant to every legitimate question that life presents. Under this position, if the Bible does not answer a question about life, then the question should not need to be asked. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 seems pretty clear, doesn’t it? Crabb agrees with much of this position, but in the end says, “The problem with this reasoning… is that it is so close to being right.” He offers two reservations about this position.
Reservation #1: If we are looking for direct answers, we might give to the literal meaning of the text a comprehensive relevance that it simply does not have. Imagine we are called to counsel a man struggling with intense urges to cross dress. Since the Bible directly address this issue (in Dueteronomy 22:5) we might assume that this teaching is comprehensively relevant. Nothing else is needed. We would counsel the man, “Don’t do that.” If he asks why he struggles with such urges when most other men don’t, or if he asks what causes such urges, we would advise him that those questions are illegitimate. They aren’t answered in the Bible, so those questions must not matter. Crabb explains, “Under the banner of biblical sufficiency, Christian counselors may ignore crucially important questions by responding only to questions that they can easily answer.”
Reservation #2: When the range of permissible questions is narrowed, our understanding of complicated problems is too simplistic. Imagine this time we are counseling a woman struggling with anorexia. Since the Bible doesn’t directly answer this issue, we turn to issues the Bible does answer. We know that the Bible describes our bodies as the temple of the Holy Spirit. Anorexia may then just be seen as rebellion against her responsibility to care properly for the temple. Again, “why” questions go unanswered and we give shallow answers to complicated problems. “When we limit the questions we are allowed to ask to those the Bible specifically answers, the result will often be a nonthinking and simplistic understanding of life and its problems that fails to drive us to increased dependency in the Lord.”
For Crabb, there must be a third alternative. We’ll be discussing that in class today and I’ll be posting a summary of it here tomorrow.
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21 comments:
I also enjoyed the class discussions. Though it is not posted to the bog yet, I agree with Crabb's third postion. The Bible is sufficient for counseling because "every question a counselor needs to ask is answered by both the content of Scripture and it's implications and the end result is to improve relationships with God and others". When we read and study the Bible, organize and think it though (put into categories to help us study), use imagery (teach others through the way we live our lives), and stay consistent then we can help our clients with their problems. Though the Bible should be used as a foundation; if the problem is not addressed directly, we should be able to use other sources to help solve the problem. Like dealing with grief from the lose of a loved one, after asking God to help us through the grief, we might have to seek a christian grief counselor to help make more since of it all.
The comments made this morning in class by the student on the far right row (forgive me I have not learned your name)(I know your not Frank) made everything in life sound as if we are predestined in this life to have this packaged life that you draw out of a hat. “You get what you get”. And that this does not involve choice. E.g. “the people that come to church are predestined to be in that particular service to hear this specific message” I would hope that this is not the same attitude we have toward counseling. “You are predestined to come to counseling and get better so we are going to sit here together and look at each other until you get better. Take this bible and let it be your guide” could that student clarify their stand for dialogue or could you, Dr. New, clarify his stand so I can have a point of reference to start from?
Forgive me for being a little sensitive to this issue. Too many times I get hurting people in my office that have been abused by this comment. “You just need to pray and read your bible more.”the comments this morning made me feel as if this is essentially what we are saying. While initially this sounds valid, “read your bible and pray”, it leaves our faith looking stale and cold and keeps us from any responsibility/accountability as christions or counselors to live out our faith in such an animated way as to cause others to catch it. I think that modeling our faith is a very good way to bring the bible to life. Our actions communicated to everyone on all kinds of levels and moves across the gender, social, and even the age gap. Even a two your old can “shadow” a 60 year old doing the right thing, but a two year old can’t read and comprehend that same action in the bible. There are spiritual two year olds that depend on us to be that model to make the bible relevant and animated in their lives. This may be heresy to say in some circles but here goes. We are to be The Holy Spirit in our actions in order that others see the Holy Spirit in action. We are a tool so to speak that God uses to live out scripture. Just an example.
What if the bible DOES answer every pertinent question, BUT our INTERPRETATION of those answers is flawed and/or misapplied?
Read recently about a pastor who was counseling a woman in his church whose husband beat her. His advice? Take it like a good aervant of the Lord. Her husband proceeded to beat the crap out of her again. Then felt so guilty he repented and became a Christian.
Scary advice to the woman if you ask me. For every guy who gets "saved" you would probably have 99 who just kept beating her.
That is a constant factor to consider. Sin blinds us to so much. I think we should take great caution when counseling on severe issues such as this. I have found that when counselors get in to trouble is when they don’t pass a client that is “over their head”.
I am not expecting credit on this note Dr. New, but I just wanted to say that I agree with Kevin, and say that it is just a brand of hyper-determinism to say "my counseling or actions do not matter because God's gonna do what he's gonna do". I'll comment more later and get my extra credits worth lol.
Is the Bible sufficient to tell us everything we need to know about understanding and solving the problems people face in their lives?
I feel really vulnerable putting my response to this question here in the wide open, but I guess I'll go ahead and do it. I don't think the bible is sufficient to tell us "everything" we need to know about understanding and solving the problems people face in their lives. I do believe that the bible needs to be our foundation and guide to where we stand on certain issues that certain people face and deal with daily. However there are issues that the bible does not deal with directly so therefore I believe that we have to find some other truth through much prayer and thought. I also believe that our ideas and what we consider to be correct must not contradict what the bible has to say.
I have a cousin that is 1 year older than me. As a child she claimed to have been saved and loved Jesus whole heartedly. After 15 years of life, watching her parents go through a divorce, dad get thrown into prison for drug use, watching mom sleep with different men while using drugs, and then the death of two grandmothers, and then eventually finding her mom dead, she no longer actually lives out a life that reflects Jesus.
To be more specific she is no longer a she, she lives a gay lifestyle, and has taken hormone pills and now claims to be a guy and has changed her name.
I dont think the bible directly deals with all of these issues here. Is she truly saved? Some might say; "if she truly was then she wouldnt be living this lifestyle"
I dont know if she is saved or not. Paul said that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ. I believe that. However I think a life of deep issues with no one to turn to can blur an image of whats real. I think when we want to judge people that continue to deal with issues that the bible clearly speaks against we have to ask ourselves "whats my problem?"
The bible needs to be our foundation but in my opinion it does not cover everything black and white. There are gray areas and thats where we need to heavily rely on the holy spirit.
Many people on here seem to believe that prayer and reading the Bible will solve every problem in life but I must say I know that is not true. I have been dealing with my sexuality since I was 15 years old. I first told my parents when I was 15 that I was having thoughts about guys that were not right. Their answer was that it was a phase and that it would pass as I got older. Well it did not and in fact it got worst. A few years ago it got so bad that I decided to go to my pastor at my church. He told me to say a prayer with him and to make sure I meant it. I said it word for word and meant every word. I was told to read my Bible every day and say that same prayer everyday and mean everything that came out of my mouth. I did that for months and nothing ever changed. I then tried going to a psychologist and was told that he had nothing for me. So here I was stuck and no one could help me. I prayed day and night for my mind to be cleansed and tried my very hardest not to think those thoughts but they still came back. I was even told at one point that when I have these thoughts I should recite a Bible verse or sing a hymn but nothing works. For the last year I have been trying my best to stay away from those thoughts. People believe it is a choice that one makes but I know for a fact it is not a choice that I choose. I don't want to think like this. I want to be like everyone else and think of only girls but I can't. So I just want to leave with a question for everyone to think about. How do you help someone when everything you come up with for them to try they have already tried and it did not work?
The discussion we had in class the other day made me think a lot about how some people think that by just reading the bible and praying to God about their issues will magically make all of their problems disappear. This, however, is not the case. When we become believers our issues don't fade away, in most cases they become more evident to deal with. We are exposed as our true selves and more often than not we struggle to find answers. This might offend some people but I believe that not all the answers to life's important questions are answered in the Bible. I do believe however that the Bible is our foundation and framework to life and what is right and wrong, but not all of our hard to deal with issues are mentioned. The why?? question isn't always answered and that is why we must look to other sources for information at the same time using the Bible as our foundation and through much needed prayer. God is a complete mystery sometimes and I don't think he wanted us to have everything figured out. If we had all the answers to all of life's questions how could we grow and reach out for God's help to make decisions. We wouldn't need a relationship with God if we new everything.
Anonymous,
I want to start by saying that I am proud of you for having the guts to bring this up. I would hope that you receive love unconditionally when this subject is brought up in your life. You have a valid point that seems to fly in the face of this idea of “just read and pray more”. I don’t know your full story so it would be hard to attempt a solution in just a few sentences and I would be crazy to do so in a blog anyway. What I can say (and hopefully you have heard this before) is that all of us are tempted. (If I could be literal with this to get my point across. This comment would get me kicked out of most churches.) Since Jesus was tempted to the fullest extent to get Him to fall, (i.e. to the point he understands our struggles) it seems reasonable to assume that He was tempted in much the same way. With this said. It should be encouraging to know that all of us are tempted in the same fashion. Don’t beat yourself up just because your peers see this as socially unacceptable. Your measure/guide and importance is to please God not man. I doubt any of us do a good job at this on any level anyway. You are just braver to bring up your innermost dark secrets to the table. Honestly. You are on the right track of overcoming. As Dr. New mentioned this morning. A lot of us rarely explore solutions to our problems. We just tend to focus on the symptom of the problem and do what is socially acceptable to fix it. The sin is not the temptation but rather the unwillingness to get back up from it and giving in. (when you fall) There is nothing wrong with being tempted. What is wrong is when we fall to our temptation or ignore them all together in hopes that they will just go away. I hope that this is encouraging. (my wife said that I may have opened a can of worms) Cut me off if I need to be Dr. New.
Anonymous,
This view may get me roundly criticized, but it is my humble and not perfect opinion that some people are actually born gay. I do not think this is that unreasonable when we see all kinds of different "issues" people are born with. From a theological standpoint, I say this is a result of the fall.
It seems that the advice you have been given so far is to try to change through prayer and scripture. While I certainly advocate prayer and scripture I would suggest considering another aspect.
Instead of trying to change your sexual orientation through whatever means, try to plesae God. What do I mean? Be celebate to the glory of God. Is this an extremely difficult thing to ask? Yep.
The problem I have with many who advocate the "God made me gay" idea is that they gofrom there to embracing a homosexual lifestyle. "If God made me this way it must be ok."
Instead, adopt the "if God made me this way I can bring glory to him through the testimony of my abstinence" idea.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not think I am saying this flippantly or with the idea that it will be easy.
My main point is this. If you read your bible and pray in the direction of abstinence instead of "change" I think you will find a better result.
But as in all things, I could be wrong.
Humbly submitted for your consideration as well as others' criticism,
David
"Humbly submitted for your consideration as well as others' criticism..."
David,
I'm sure there will be those that will critique your perspective on this issue. And this is an issue worthy of serious consideration and dialogue.
Setting that aside for just a moment, I'd like to thank you and commend you for your approach to the matter. In discussions like this, we too often we come across as condescending and self-righteous in our interactions. This is true in the classroom as well in the blogosphere. And I'm no exception, either.
Thanks for offering your input graciously.
AN
i see your point david. i think. this person is not really born gay, but born with sin. just like the rest of us.
Can someone be born gay? A question that offers many questions with few answers. Man is born with sin. Is sin manifested as homosexuality in today's world? Of course. But can man be born with the desire for his same sex? I don't think so, but this stance requires much more thought...
If the fall of Adam had never taken place in the Garden of Eden, all of the sins of today's world would be nonexistent, including homosexuality.
Anonymous, Kevin gave great advice when saying that this temptation should not be ignored or fed into. Meet temptation head on, pray for strength. Yes, read your Bible. But do not just rely on the Bible to provide you with direction. Get plugged into a group of believers. Join a Bible study or a church softball team. Find friends/mentors from which you can learn and grow. Homosexuality isn't a battle you want to fight alone...
The topic of homosexuality has taken the discussion a bit off course from the original post. But that's OK.
I don't want the discussion to run too far without a bit of a correction, though. I don't think that very many of even the most secular psychologists would propose that homosexuality is 100% genetic.
At best, what we can say is that is seems that some people are born with a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality. This genetic predisposition can dramatically increase the likelihood of homosexuality if the person also experiences a variety of other life experiences - in greater or lesser degrees.
NOTICE TO CBC STUDENTS: I'll be teaching Human Sexuality next semester. We'll be tackling this issue among many others.
Matt,
Are YOU willing to be that friend and mentor? I'm half-serious. I know the anonymous poster and I could introduce you.
"Get plugged into a group of believers. Join a Bible study or a church softball team. Find friends/mentors from which you can learn and grow."
I agree that those things can be very helpful within a more comprehensive plan for overcoming homosexuality.
But hang on. Let me go get my soapbox....
If we were to take an honest assessment of our church's Sunday school classes, Bible studies, softball teams, etc., my guess is that we'd find they are not particularly inviting to people struggling with homosexuality. I'm not trying to throw Matt under the bus personally, here. In general, we SAY we ought to be friends and mentors to guys who are struggling. But we DO something different.
I could offer explanations and illustrations, but I hope that isn't necessary. I'll leave it to you all to explore the issue further (for now).
AN
I just want to each of you for what you have posted. I will truly take each and every word to heart. I do not believe I was born gay and I agree that instead of try to change I should focus on abstinence. Honestly this is what I have been doing for a long time now. Not many people know this dark secret of mine because of the fact that Dr.New has pointed out. People are quick to say that they want to help but what they do is the complete opposite. I would love to hear more from both Kevin and David. Again I want to thank you for your support and help.
About what Dr. New said concerning how Christians treat homesexuals...I recently read a chapter in a book called UnChristian on Christians attitudes towards homesexuality and how those attitudes make us appear to the world. I have only read that chapter of the book, but I can say it is worth reading. It will make you think.
Anonymous,
In an effort to not keep this post on this sort-of off topic direction, I will let you know that I have posted about this on my blog and will continue to discuss in there.
I dont think Aaron will mind if I point you there for future discussion of my own personal thoughts on the topic.
You can go there HERE.
Hope that link works!
doc new-
I agree that the church is not inviting for those who we deem "different". That's our fault as "church" people.
Would I feel comfortable being this person's friend? Honestly, yes. Jesus spoke with thieves and prostitutes. He didn't condemn them for their choices, but he pointed them down a new path. We, as Christians, should be doing the same thing...
Before anymore is said on the subject I need to say a few things. First of all I want to be clear that I do like girls and I do want to get married someday and have kids. My problem is that I have thoughts of guys and girls. I also want to say thank you Matt it really means a lot to me to know that I have someone that is willing to be my friend no matter what I feel or am.
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